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Crushed classics

The following cars are now confirmed as of 26th june 2009 as being taken in on the scrappage scheme

MGB
MG Midget
Jaguar XJ6
Ford Capri
Triumph TR7
Triumph Herald
1989 Bedford Bambi
Bond Equipe
and a Singer Vogue

now say what you want but all these cars had to be taxed and tested so must have at least been better than a pile of rust in someones back yard prior to being given to the local itinerants so you can cut the roses

disgusting these cars are going to be crushed
its our heritage being thrown away and for what? a washing machine type car that will last maybe 8 years before its uneconomic to repair

..... .................................. very annoyed of yorkshire

Comments

SteVee    on 29 June 2009

I agree - hopefully the scrappage scheme will end soon.

Does 'scrapped' automatically mean that it is crushed ?
Will any parts be available for resale (i guess not the bodyshell / chassis) ?

madf    on 29 June 2009

The world is a better place - or will be - when that rubbish is scrapped.

I drove some of them when new. They were bad then...

oldnotbold    on 29 June 2009

In almost every case the owner will have made a sound commercial judgement on the value of the car, I expect. I very much doubt anyone will be scrapping a Bugatti, a Lagonda or a RR for £2k, so it's pretty unlikely that anything that matters will get crushed.

commerdriver    on 29 June 2009

You really don't like old cars, do you Madf?

Some of them were OK to drive when they were new and could still be enjoyable in a lot of ways, sure they are not as fast / quiet / reliable as a modern car but I remember having a lot of fun in a couple of Ford Capris in ways that most comparable modern cars are too technically advanced to do.

Edited by commerdriver on 29/06/2009 at 16:08

SpamCan61 {P}    on 29 June 2009

I agree bb; the world's gone mad. I wouldn't want to do my 30K a year in any of them ( particularly the bambi) , but that doesn't mean they're just scrapyard fodder. ho hum :-/

LikedDrivingOnce    on 29 June 2009

....... but I remember having a lot of fun in a couple of Ford Capris in ways
that most comparable modern cars are too technically advanced to do.

In a friendly way, I'm afraid that I must disagree.

Arthur Dent in Hitchhikers Guide: This is obviously some usage of the word "fun" that I have not previously encountered.

My first car was a Ford Capri.....I would not have described it as "fun".
Handsome, Practical, Nippy, (Surprisingly) Reliable - Yes.
Appalling handling - Yes.

Fun- No.

I'm not saying that you are wrong - maybe you find a way to get some fun out of it that I didn't. If so, please feel free to enlighten me.

JH    on 30 June 2009

My first car was a Ford Capri.....I would not have described it as "fun".
Handsome, Practical, Nippy, (Surprisingly) Reliable - Yes.
Appalling handling - Yes.

????

Appalling handling? Mine was brill. I learnt some really fun bad habits in it due to it's benign lack of grip. OK it pulled to the left in the wet under braking and it was possible to hide from the rain under the bonnet while looking for the 1.6 engine (long story) but the handling was very definitely fun. Which one did you have?

As for scrapping it. Yeah, ok. It's not like it was a 6 cylinder model.

JH

bell boy    on 30 June 2009

Which one did you have?
>>
>>>> he obviously had a 1300 ohv with a set of barums on and a mileage of 135,000 second time round with the obliquetry oh no not again sticker on the back of the speedo head
any other capri if it had suspension in good fettle and reasonable tyres was a brilliant car to drive
i had one or two of them

commerdriver    on 30 June 2009

I'm not saying that you are wrong - maybe you find a way to get
some fun out of it that I didn't. If so please feel free to enlighten
me.


I left a fair amount of rubber around the roads of Newcastle more years ago than I care to remember. To a twenty something year old the opportunity to learn to control oversteer (thats how I justified it) without getting yourself into trouble was fun.
To be fair, 1600cc was about all I could handle in those days but very definitely fun

bell boy    on 30 June 2009

you probably wont believe this commerdriver but the only car ive ever had broken into properly was a capri jps and guess where it was
newcastle football club car park
they damaged the car but failed to steal it due to my ingenious hidden switch
i had forgotten to fit the big spike under the drivers seat that day unfortunately

bell boy    on 29 June 2009

I drove some of them when new. They were bad then...
interesting analysis,ive also driven all of them bar the bond and they were all good at what they were,i assume you know what a bambi is by the way?lets put it this way you think roundabouts constantly


edit........my post was started 10 minutes ago but i got broken off....

Edited by bell boy on 29/06/2009 at 16:20

pd    on 29 June 2009

Not many good ones will be crushed because:

(a) Anyone who thinks their car is worth more than £2000 won't be using the scrappage scheme anyway

(b) Any dealer with half a brain if they receive a car in on the scrappage scheme they reckon they can get more than £1000 for will probably not scrap it (regardless of how the new car may have been sold to the customer) but trade it on.

I doubt many of these were cherished examples with real value.

madf    on 29 June 2009

Do I like old cars?

Well I started my driving life in them: and until I got my first company car some 30 odd years ago I relied on old cars for my transport.. Not for fun, but as daily drivers.

So I recall rust and unreliability and heavy steering and zero performance: and that's just the MGB... and seized closed thermostats and electric windows with a mind of their own and aluminium to steel corrosion and going out of tune, and .. etc (the XJ6) .

They were carp then and today they are still carp.

See all the owners of Triumph Stags... Unless rebuilt completely NOT to factory specifications, they would last 1,000 miles and then fall over. And people think they are classics!


A Mini IS a classic and I had them for 20 years.. but I'd never have another... far too uncomfortable... and when you have a rubber UJ go on a driveshaft at 11pm in the wilds of Scotland...


Edited by madf on 29/06/2009 at 17:29

boxsterboy    on 29 June 2009

I thought the dealer who was taking in the 1967 Singer Vogue persuaded the owner to sell it privately? But, yes, I can't see Kiayundai Picanti10s lasting that long.

bathtub tom    on 29 June 2009

>>ive also driven all of them bar the bond

It was a Herald with a plastic body, so you probably did.

The Equipe GT was a Vitesse.

the swiss tony    on 29 June 2009

(b) Any dealer with half a brain if they receive a car in on the
scrappage scheme they reckon they can get more than £1000 for will probably not scrap
it (regardless of how the new car may have been sold to the customer) but
trade it on.


If only that was possible.
once the a car is put forward for the scrappage scheme, its days are numbered. the scrapping of that car is unstoppable.
it is the owner, not the dealer who makes the decision. many classics are worth less than 2k, especially at the moment, where the market is depressed
I dont even know why you mentioned £1000.... the owner will be looking at the full £2000.
there are cars out there, that should be heading to museums, but are heading to the scrappers instead.
have a look at some of the examples in museums, some are very rough, and there are better kept ones out in the wild... Coventry Transport Museum is a case in point, much as I love the place, some of their exhibits are really quite scabby.

The fact is, the scrappage scheme isnt taking the cars that should come off the road, as the real nasty examples are not on the whole, kept by anyone for a year, its the cars with a good year or more still in them thats being crushed... I can see wrecks being kept on the road for longer, due to there being nothing to replace them.....

Another John H    on 29 June 2009

>>Does 'scrapped' automatically mean that it is crushed ?

It is supposed to be destroyed - the certificate provided (V860) is a certificate of destruction.

However, HJ has hinted elsewhere that some of the better stuff is clandestinely exported as a car, rather than a cube.

pd    on 29 June 2009

I mention £1000 because that is the scrappage figure. The other £1000 comes from dealer/importer.

There is no mileage in a dealer scrapping a car worth less than £1000. If it's worth £1500 at auction then can either scrap it and get £1000 or send it to auction and get £1500. As they do the paperwork they make the ultimate decision - not the seller.

davidh    on 29 June 2009

Oh, i see, a dealer can choose to cube a car that isnt actually his then?

the swiss tony    on 29 June 2009

As they do the paperwork they make the ultimate
decision - not the seller.

Rubbish.
you need to read the rules.
I have.

Sofa Spud    on 29 June 2009

I thought this might happen. But on reflection, there are probably too many old Morris Minors and VW Beetles left anyway so a cull is probably no bad thing. I remember how few of the old side-valve sit-up-and-beg Ford Populars survived because most got turned into hot-rods.

I remember the fuss over the Heartbeat TV series when they destroyed a unique classic coach for an accident scene. They could have used a Bedford OB with a Duple body, but instead they used a Thames with an unusual one-off body.

Edited by Sofa Spud on 29/06/2009 at 23:16

perro    on 30 June 2009

Such waste! ... They could have sent the old bangers to Cornwall which is one of the poorest regions *of Europe*
You won't see many shiny, shiny stuff down here - unless its from 'upcountry'.
My 3rd car was a Capri - 1600 GTXL in metallic green complete with Rostyle wheels, it was a great car & fun to drive.

pd    on 30 June 2009

Rubbish.
you need to read the rules.
I have.


No one is forced to use the scrappage scheme. A dealer can give £2000 off completely independently of the scrappage scheme if they so wish and if it makes financial sense to do so.

Lots of dealers are offering the "scrappage" scheme on pre-reg cars but that's not in the Government scheme either.

If you have read the rules so well I can't understand why you thought it was £2000 instead of the £1000 Government contribution it actually is.

Edited by pd on 30/06/2009 at 10:03

Cliff Pope    on 30 June 2009

"A classic is only a classic because most of its fellows have already been scrapped" - Discuss

the swiss tony    on 30 June 2009

No one is forced to use the scrappage scheme. A dealer can give £2000 off
completely independently of the scrappage scheme if they so wish and if it makes financial
sense to do so.

If you have read the rules so well I can't understand why you thought it
was £2000 instead of the £1000 Government contribution it actually is.


Correct... no one is forced into using the scrappage BUT if they enter into the scheme then the car WILL be scrapped.
dealers have, and will continue to give discounts if asked, and if the figures add up.. profit is made from the car being sold, and the trade in, the figures are adjusted until both parties are happy with the deal... discount on the new car is often taken off the trade in figure, or made up from add on accessories, sale of an extra warranty etc.

I know what the £2000 is made up from, 50% government the rest a mix from manufacturer and the dealer.

the point I was trying to make, is, the purchaser will be looking at a TOTAL figure of £2000 'discount' he will not care where the money comes from, he only cares that he isnt paying the 2K.
That then goes back to the amount in the deal.... if the dealer decided that the car shouldnt be scrapped, the he would need to find the FULL £2000 or at least the difference between the current market value (in a depressed market)
He wont get help from the manufacturer nor HMG!

That I cant see happening... dealers are out to make money, not fill museums.

EDIT to clarify HMG will ONLY give £1000 upon scrapping......

Edited by the swiss tony on 30/06/2009 at 20:00

pd    on 30 June 2009

the point I was trying to make is the purchaser will be looking at a
TOTAL figure of £2000 'discount' he will not care where the money comes from he
only cares that he isnt paying the 2K.
That then goes back to the amount in the deal.... if the dealer decided that
the car shouldnt be scrapped the he would need to find the FULL £2000 or
at least the difference between the current market value (in a depressed market)
He wont get help from the manufacturer nor HMG!
That I cant see happening... dealers are out to make money not fill museums.
EDIT to clarify HMG will ONLY give £1000 upon scrapping......


Agree with that, but my point is that where a px is clearly worth more than the £1000 then the dealer will be very relucant to use the scrappage scheme.

If a car with worth £1750 all day long then putting it through the scrappage scheme will cost the dealer £1000 (£1000 from HMG, £1000 from the dealer to give a £2000 discount). If the px is worth £1750 they can give a £2000 discount for just £250.

Because of this the idea of thousands of immaculate valuable "classics" being scrapped is perhaps a bit far fetched.

The figures may be skewed but manufacturer incentives but in reality few manufacturers are giving much extra - they are simply removing bonuses for cars sold on scrappage.

L'escargot    on 30 June 2009

its our heritage being thrown away ........


You can get as emotional as you like about these vehicles, but by modern standards they were/are rubbish in all respects. I'm just pleased they "don't make cars like they used to".

commerdriver    on 30 June 2009

You can get as emotional as you like about these vehicles but by modern standards
they were/are rubbish in all respects.


I think rubbish is putting it a bit strong, of course they are not as good as modern vehicles.
You could say the same about steam engines, ww2 aircraft & square rigged sailing craft to name a few.
The fact remains that many people, including me, find the "nothing old is worth having around anymore" just as hard to understand as you seem to find it that people still get some pleasure in driving 30 year old cars (or even 35 year old campervans).
We know they are not as fast/reliable/comfortable as the modern equivalent but they are a bit different and if that's what we get pleasure from, why shouldn't we.

SpamCan61 {P}    on 30 June 2009

>> its our heritage being thrown away ........
You can get as emotional as you like about these vehicles but by modern standards
they were/are rubbish in all respects. I'm just pleased they "don't make cars like they
used to".


I agree 100% from a practical viewpoint, I wouldn't particularly want to drive any of that list, it's more a question of where museums of the future are going to get their exhibits from, from my point of view.

bell boy    on 30 June 2009

as has been said before but i will repeat
the cars being scrapped are either rubbish cars like failed rovers (fact) or cars that older people have decided to get rid of for something new as they reach their dotage (an example is a good friend has just retired his mortgage is paid off and he got a lump sum of cash hes gone and bought a brand new punto,he got rid of a fiesta he bought off me and its the first new car hes had in his life)
others are getting rid of the cars i mentioned above ,its happening all over europe where the scrappage scheme is,i bet italy wouldnt allow a 500 abarth to be scrapped though as a comparison,someone in germany scrapped a 10,000 mile mint astra last month

i dont know why we dont throw away 15th century books for the same reason as they are old only read very occasionaly and could easily be part exchanged for a latest harry potter paperback that the kids could read,in fact we could burn the old books as its only history,the past

John F    on 30 June 2009

I assume the TR7 was a hardtop 4 speed rotbox from the seaside Speke production line. They were indeed awful cars. My TR7 Conv is almost a completely different car from the Canley production line where they started to make them properly. It is nearly 30yrs old, great fun to throw around [rear wheel drive live axle] and has been the most reliable car I have ever had. Most expensive bill was a £400 tart-up respray about 15yrs ago. Most expensive mechanical bill was a new water pump, less than £100,which I fitted myself. Depreciation - less than £100 per annum.

So not rubbish at all.

moonshine {P}    on 30 June 2009


Soon to be crushed - 1984 Celica Supra, very reliable, 12 months MOT, only 70k miles. Shame to see it go as these are very rare in the UK and its a perfectly good car.

loskie    on 30 June 2009

Not a classic I know but in the next couple of months my 1999 Octavia Tdi estate will be scrappage. A good car with a good bit of life left in it. Needs a wee bit spent on it which I will not bother about(is still safe and driveable) but scrappage gave me the best option. No hassle of selling, no hassle of trading in and 25% off a V50 seemed a good deal.
Will be sad to see the octavia go but at the age and mileage (more age) you never know what costs are around the corner and i didn't want to replace it in a hurry if it failed.
I agree the scheme is flawed, environmentally and financially but for me in fiscal terms it made sense.

AlanGowdy    on 30 June 2009

I can't help feeling that there will be a lot of regret around in a few years at the destruction now being wrought on perfectly good examples of cars that are becoming rare, whether or not they are reliable or rust free. Those who value cars of the 'Practical Classic' type will not look back on 2009 with fondness. It's a bit like the BBC's one-time policy (now discredited) of wiping the tapes of old shows with no regard for their heritage.

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